Video Poker Bankroll

  1. Then I checked probably the most popular video poker game: Double Double Bonus Poker. With a 9-6 pay table, it’s a 98.98 percent return, $12.75 average loss in two hours on a quarter machine, with a $300 bankroll for a 5 percent risk of ruin and a 35.46 percent chance of a winning session.
  2. Video Poker Bankroll Tips The first rule any casino player should follow is “Never overbet your bankroll.” If short-bankrolled players need to bet less than maximum coins and get less than optimal paybacks on video poker and some slot games, then that’s the way it has to be.
  3. Required Bankroll for Video Poker: One of the keys to giving your self the best chance of success when playing video poker or any gambling game for that matter is bankroll management. This section covers a range of information that you can use to make sure you get the most out of your gambling cash and no.
  4. Then I checked probably the most popular video poker game: Double Double Bonus Poker. With a 9-6 pay table, it’s a 98.98 percent return, $12.75 average loss in two hours on a quarter machine, with a $300 bankroll for a 5 percent risk of ruin and a 35.46 percent chance of a winning session.
  1. Poker Bankroll Requirements
  2. Video Poker 10 Play
abacabb

Video Poker: Bankroll Size vs. Risk of Ruin Introduction. This appendix addresses the question of bankroll size Vs. Risk of ruin in video poker. For those who don't know, the risk of ruin is the probability of losing an entire bankroll.

Hi, I have a few questions about multi-line VP and bankroll requirements.
Let's say that I've determined that I can play $1 single line JoB and with the players club and other benefits I've determined that a good bankroll is exactly $20,000. Alternately, I can play JoB with 50-lines, 100-lines, or 9-line Spin Poker and get exactly the same $5 bet in per hand with the same benefits. Does my bankroll requirement change for these variants, and if it does change what would be a good ballpark figure for each variant? Moreover, how can I calculate the requisite bankroll an arbitrary multi-line game if I know the return and variance?
I'm trying to think about this from many angles and I get conflicting answers. For example, it seems to me that by playing many smaller lines my bankroll could be smaller because I am rarely getting absolutely nothing back on each play. Additionally, in an individual session it is quite easy to bust $100 playing $1 single line, but I typically get a lot of play out of the same amount on 50 or 100-line with the same $5 total bet.. However, it seems to me that the bankroll requirement could go up because the only time you 'truly' hit a royal is when you get one dealt to you before the draw, and this makes your cycle go from 40k to 650k. This also makes sense to me considering the published variance numbers on the WoO site.
I'll also note at the bottom of the page here: http://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/appendix/1/ it says go to appendix 6 for risk of ruin in multi-play VP but the link just goes to a page about deuces wild.
AxiomOfChoice
I think that on the wizard's site he gives results of a simulation of various numbers of lines of JoB. You could use that as a probability distribution and plug it into whatever you used to determine the bankroll requirements for single-line.
Video Poker Bankroll
abacabb
Well, let me ask some different/easier questions then because I'm not really clear on how to do that. I feel like this is something that should be able to be thought through logically but I can't quite get it.
Assuming two games have the same return, would you choose to play a standard 5-coin 1-line VP for a $X total bet per hand, or would you choose to play 5-coin 50-line VP for a $X total bet per hand -- mainly to reduce variance? I feel pretty clearly that the 50-line variant is the better choice, even though the true 'cycle' hits only on a dealt natural royal.
Secondly, assuming that the 50-line VP is the better choice, would it make sense that due to the lower overall variance that the bankroll requirement of the 50-line game is half that of the single line game? That is to say, we could play $2X total per hand on the same bankroll?
AxiomOfChoice

Assuming two games have the same return, would you choose to play a standard 5-coin 1-line VP for a $X total bet per hand, or would you choose to play 5-coin 50-line VP for a $X total bet per hand -- mainly to reduce variance? I feel pretty clearly that the 50-line variant is the better choice, even though the true 'cycle' hits only on a dealt natural royal.


Yes, if your goal is to reduce variance, then you would pick the 50-line at 1/50 the denom.
Quote:

Poker Bankroll Requirements

Secondly, assuming that the 50-line VP is the better choice, would it make sense that due to the lower overall variance that the bankroll requirement of the 50-line game is half that of the single line game? That is to say, we could play $2X total per hand on the same bankroll?


I am really not sure how those numbers work out. It would probably depend somewhat on the game (although probably not much).
I just recently finished writing a simulator to answer this exact question so if you'd like I can run some numbers for you and give you an exact answer.
But, if you are playing a negative expectation game, it doesn't really make sense to ask how much bankroll you need without more details. What's your goal here? Long-term you will lose everything playing a -EV game. If your goal is just to give the casino a certain amount of play (ie, $N in coin-in for some N) then this question can be answered.
Multi-line has a very strange skew to it -- variance does not tell the whole story. In short-medium length sessions, You have a few massive wins (from dealt royals) and lot of small-medium sized losses. You will lose more often than you do at single-line, but they will tend to be smaller losses.
DRich

Yes, if your goal is to reduce variance, then you would pick the 50-line at 1/50 the denom.

Video Poker 10 Play


Exactly. Note the 1/50th per hand. Do not bet the same X per hand or your swings will be crazy the total bet being the same for both is probably what you want.
I will play $5 single line games for a total bet of $25 or I will play the same game in 50 play at the 10 cent level for a total bet of $25.
Living longer does not always infer +EV
abacabb

I am really not sure how those numbers work out. It would probably depend somewhat on the game (although probably not much).
I just recently finished writing a simulator to answer this exact question so if you'd like I can run some numbers for you and give you an exact answer.
But, if you are playing a negative expectation game, it doesn't really make sense to ask how much bankroll you need without more details. What's your goal here? Long-term you will lose everything playing a -EV game. If your goal is just to give the casino a certain amount of play (ie, $N in coin-in for some N) then this question can be answered.
Multi-line has a very strange skew to it -- variance does not tell the whole story. In short-medium length sessions, You have a few massive wins (from dealt royals) and lot of small-medium sized losses. You will lose more often than you do at single-line, but they will tend to be smaller losses.


Sure, please do run a simulation. As for the game, assume it does not matter. The situation I'm talking about would include things like freeplay and such. For example NSUD returns 99.73% but this can be a +EV game when you factor in players club points (say +0.3% in freeplay), offers, drawing entries, etc.
So the scenario I envision is something like this. Let's say the game is 9/6 JoB with a 1% cashback. According to WoO's numbers, for a 1% ROR the bankroll needs to be 7256 bets. At the $1 single-line level for a total bet of $5 this would be a bankroll of $36280. Now if we choose to play 50-line 2c for a total bet of $5 the variance is reduced so the bankroll requirement should also be reduced. By how much I am curious.
AxiomOfChoice

Sure, please do run a simulation. As for the game, assume it does not matter. The situation I'm talking about would include things like freeplay and such. For example NSUD returns 99.73% but this can be a +EV game when you factor in players club points (say +0.3% in freeplay), offers, drawing entries, etc.
So the scenario I envision is something like this. Let's say the game is 9/6 JoB with a 1% cashback. According to WoO's numbers, for a 1% ROR the bankroll needs to be 7256 bets. At the $1 single-line level for a total bet of $5 this would be a bankroll of $36280. Now if we choose to play 50-line 2c for a total bet of $5 the variance is reduced so the bankroll requirement should also be reduced. By how much I am curious.


I will run some numbers tonight. I've been looking to exercise my new program anyway.
abacabb

I will run some numbers tonight. I've been looking to exercise my new program anyway.


Thanks!
AxiomOfChoice
My program is a little slow for multi-line so I'm going to have to make some changes. I'm running at a little under a minute for a million deals of 50-play, which I know is way too slow. I know what I'm doing wrong, though... I will run the analysis after I fix it.
AxiomOfChoice
Good news: I can now simulate billions of hands in not very much time.
Bad news: This data tells me that I have a bug. I'm only returning 99.47% on 9/6 JoB. I knew I should have written the rest of those unit tests.